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The Gravitude Bar • View topic - The Countdown has begun... The end is coming ..of phpBB2
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Time's a tickin' on phpbb 2. What's next?
phpBB 3 - the shiny new (free) car 56%  56%  [ 15 ]
Invision Power Board (IPB) - so many child boards of Grav has used this 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
VBulletin - the standard in excellent communities 22%  22%  [ 6 ]
SMF - the upstart to phpBB 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Something else gondee - expand your mind! 15%  15%  [ 4 ]
Bring back Allo Chiropractor gondee - that place was the shiz! 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 27
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:56 pm  Post subject: The Countdown has begun... The end is coming ..of phpBB2  
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Don't freak out - this isn't the end of the Gravitude Bar. :no However, it is the first sign of an impending crossroads, and one that I want the community's input on as soon as possible.

The issue at hand is that the phpBB group - the group in charge of updating the phpbb 2 board whenever there's a security exploit found - is retiring phpBB2 after February 1, 2009. This means they will no longer be issuing patches for exploits found on phpbb 2 after this date.

http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopi ... 4&t=900655

phpBB Group wrote:
Early Retirement of 2.0.x
by NeoThermic on Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:37 pm

Hello,

Today we are announcing our retirement plans for phpBB 2.0.x. This is advanced notification so that everyone can stay informed.

Commencing Wednesday 1st October 2008, phpBB 2.0.x download links will be removed from the download page at phpBB.com. Anyone wishing to obtain phpBB 2.0.x can continue to obtain the 2.0.x package at sourceforge.net.

Commencing Thursday 1st January 2009, phpBB 2.0.x will be formally retired, and support will no longer be actively provided for 2.0.x. Converting from 2.0.x to 3.0.x will continue to be supported.

Security patches, if required, will be provided until Sunday 1st February 2009.

The reason for the early retirement is the PHP Group's decision to retire PHP 4. phpBB 2.0 mainly runs on the PHP 4 codebase and it would be unwise to require people to have an unsupported version of PHP installed in order to use phpBB.


What does this mean for us? Well, in the short term it means nothing. Our community will remain the same as it always has been. However, in the long term it means the likelihood of our board being taken down by hackers will increase every day after that date if we remain using our current board system.

I love our current bulletin board, I've spent 5 years customizing the damn thing to be perfect for our particular community. I've learned a ton about web design and being a good administrator in doing so and I've poured my blood, sweat and tears into this place. But if I'm being totally honest -- I'm sure everyone here is members at another, nicer version of a bulletin board, be it Vbulletin, IPB, SMF, or even phpBB version 3. There are features on those boards you wish we had, isn't there?

I think we've taken our board about as far as we can go, don't you?

So in short - it's time to migrate. In some ways it's sad to have to say goodbye to our old standby the Gravitude Bar in it's phpbb2 form. But in every way that counts, the Gravitude Bar isn't the forum software, it's the people that come here that make this place so awesome, and that won't change as long as we can post messages.

SO - long story short - we need to change our forum software within 9 months - and I want your input, good bad and ugly, about what forum software we should switch over to.

Before I do this, I know you all are thinking "But there's so many awesome hacks here!" Well, yes, there is -- but every prominent forum software has basically the same iteration hacks. There's an arcade hack for V3, IPB, IMF, you name it. Shoot, vix has been using IPB games in the forum for a long time. In the long run, I see no real issue about losing any real functionality at the next version of the Gravitude Bar. Honestly, our board is hacked out the ass and we still only have about 75% of the functionality of other customized forum sites I've seen.

And I know what you're thinking after that - "But I don't want to lose all of our history!" I can't guarantee everything will make the migration over. But I will make the final decision of forum software based on how well it transfers our messages from our old forum to our new one. And if you ever looked into it, there are converters for phpbb 2 for EVERY SINGLE forum software out there. phpbb 2 was the most popular free forum software out there and spawned millions of communities. I'm not worried about losing our messages. Maybe a handful of profile information gets lost, but that's not our community, our message are, and I guarantee you that will be transferred completely whole or I won't transfer it over. :)

And honestly, I will work my ass off to make the new Gravitude Bar as much like the old one as I can. And honestly, even if we just went with phpbb 3 for free, there are so many awesome features with the new version that make me excited thinking about the transition.

Our only custom piece of software that we must write is our SSX Scoreboard. That's honestly my proudest achievement, and I'm willing to pay to have it redone for whatever forum we have. Every forum has a vibrant community, and there are always forum modders who can write fantastic custom code. I'm not worried about that. And if I, for once, asked our members for a little help (say, a $10 donation or something) would you guys be willing to pitch in? That's the only thing we have I can't see finding offered somewhere else.

So - let the debate begin. What do you want the Gravitude Bar version 2.0 to have? What platform should we use? VBulletin - the generally accepted "best" forum software out there? IPB - the up and comer? phpBB 3 free and awesome? SMF? YaBB?

Sound off guys, and don't worry, I'm not gonna rush anything -- but I want your input early so I can do the proper homework to find out just what would need to be done to make our next forum version as awesome as it can be with minimal jarring of our board.

Post away! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:40 pm  Post subject:   
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Now, for the contenders.

  • phpBB 3 - the logical upgrade to our forum board. I've set up a test board on our Merq.net if you want to look at what a default phpbb 3 installation looks like. Vix and I had some fun testing it out a few months ago. :D

    Pros - Free. Maximum compatibility with our old forum minus a few of our custom hacks that aren't supported yet. Pretty good features for a free board. Good community, drastically shortened setup time as I already know many of the resources for the community.
    Cons - same as phpbb 2. Because it's free and popular, it's a target for hackers more so than the other forum software. It doesn't have the "rep" of board software generally considered more "powerful" like IPB and Vbulletin. It also won't have new features officially released on a regular basis like other forum software does - but this is offset by the modding community which is active and always releasing new stuff.
  • Invision Power Board - this board software has probably had the most child boards spawned. It's one of the most popular forum software out there.

    Pros - Vix has been running one for years, and that's a leg up if we're using new software. She could speed our migration to the "old Grav" as quickly as possible after we change. IPB is also a very good board software.
    Cons - it's a pay board. We'd have to pay a licensing fee every year if we wanted to upgrade. I believe I could afford that, but if not, I'd be hitting you guys up for money once a year or every few years to help with the cost. On the other hand, it's a little tougher for kiddie hackers to crack a licensed board, but not impossible by any means for someone who's intent.
  • Vbulletin - Vbulletin is the "king" of the forum software right now. If you're serious about running a big forum, it's almost always Vbulletin. Tekken Zaibatsu, Rottentomatoes.com, and a ton of other forums use this software, and the community is top notch.
    Pros - The community is awesome and there's a good likelihood that there's a hack for every one that we have here. It's also generally considered the safest software, but that's a little misleading, as hackers can take down anything if they try.
    Cons - it's a pay board. So the same situation as above with IPB. Neither I nor vix are familiar with Vbulletin, so getting back up to speed would be slower as I would have to find all new resources for hacks/templates/help, etc.
  • Simple Machines Forum This is the upstart to phpbb. Generally considered to be a superior product to phpbb 2 when it first came out. I'm sure there's a healthy modding community here.

    Pros - It's free, so no cost. The features are competitive and it's generally considered a good, fast board.

    Cons - I'm not familiar with it at all, so getting back up to speed would be slower than if we just used phpbb 3. And being a free board, there's as much of a chance of hacking as anything else.
  • Something else - MyBB, YaBB, etc

    Pros - I think all of them are free. It'll never give you up. Never let you down. Never run around and desert you.

    Cons - Lesser known software, so it's less likely to be as feature packed. And as always, I'm not familiar with it, so getting up to speed would be slower and there's potential that there isn't a similar hack to one we already have. It's a crapshoot in other words.


Hopefully that will help decide if you don't know what I'm talking about. List some of your favorite forums, and what software they were running, and that might give us a good idea of why you like a forum. Post away! :D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:32 am  Post subject:   
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While I have no deep knowledge of forum board software ... :rolleyes but I do know a bit about project management. So I suggest that you list all the hacks you've made to the site. Then check off the mods that are built into each contender, prioritise the remainder and set out the porting plan. The Gravitude Bar has grown organically, a mod here and there; which is fine but porting means everything changing in unison. So working out the plan before finally selecting the new car is important.

Another selection criteria is where in the development/version cycle each program is. You don't want to have do this sort of thing again soon. Which also begs the question, what is each candidate's update policy and it's impact on hacks?

IPB and phpBB 3 sound like the easiest migration paths but is Vbulletin significantly superior? Other than the modding community, how much does its superiority benefit us?

What are some of the new features you are looking for? Can you list and prioritise them? I would minimise the number of new features you put into the board for the cut-over. Start releasing them after you stabilise the new baby.

How long are you prepared to go into the no update zone? Which is 1 Oct :glare

Oh and how much do the pay boards cost pa?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:45 am  Post subject:   
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I have also no deep knowledge about boards etc... or webdesign so fisrt a few questions before I can say something:
Is it possible to get an regestration code without paying (cough torrentz cough) or not ?
and about the board just choose the thing that our users like.
the update to phpBB3 well didi we got hacked a lot the last years???

and about the paying boards well if u can't afford that or u don't want to buy this (no offence g-man) then u just bick phpBB3

this was my short opinion

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:57 am  Post subject:   
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For the record, gondee, i don't have IPB. I have the free version of it, InvisionFree. Which was written by some college kids years back who I think were with IPB. They have since moved away and wrote there own forum software from the ground up called Zetaboards. All IF owners have the option to upgrade their IF boards to Zetaboards. Actually, the option is in the ACP, but the autoconverter isn't done yet so conversions are being done by hand by Brandon at the moment. You could look into ZB but I think the scoreboard my give you issues in the long run. http://support.zetaboards.com/index/

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:35 am  Post subject:   
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Based on what you've written id go for the faithful phpBB 3 - for its ease of use and speed of crossover. Down time on this site because of errors has always seemed minimal so is it worth going for the big and shiny pay board when what you already have for free is more than adequate.

If we had 2000 members signing in daily then yes go for the paying site, but keeping things as they are feels more friendly and keeps the spirit of our little community.

Failing that Id gladly pay a small fee to help keep things ticking over.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:56 am  Post subject:   
SSX: Racing: #1
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Ok, I can't leave a long response now, but when you said we're part of better boards than this, the answer is HELL NO. Of course I (and I'm sure others) are part of a couple other forums, but none look as nice as this, are as easy to use as this, are as aesthetically pleasing as this or organized as this. Seriously, ALL other boards look exactly the same and have so much BS everywhere (with wonderful advertisements to boot) and I hate it. Grav is so easy to surf, post, search, talk, anything.

It sucks that we gotta change next year, but seriously dude, no board looks or functions as nicely as Grav does.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:13 pm  Post subject:   
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'Tis true. The reason people like me and alp still hang around is because this forum is run so well, looks so nice, etc.

It's refreshing.

So I trust whatever you think is best.




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:23 pm  Post subject:   
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Okay, if I were listing all the hacks on this site...jeez, that would take a while. But I can simplify it because many of our hacks were installed to include a feature that was in by default on other forum software. Simply listing those hacks that give us features that aren't native to regular installations narrows down the list quite a bit.

Hacks added that aren't native to other boards (for the most part):
SSX Scoreboard
Arcade
Knowledge Base
Chatline
Former Integration with Fan Art Gallery (removed)
Shops
Custom Title
A few other very small hacks

Almost all everything else I've modded the board to include - extra profile fields, birthdays, favorites, Buddy List, so on and so forth, are all part of the generic installations now, including phpbb 3. :yes So we'll be pretty well up to speed on forum features when we upgrade.

But there are a few caveats to that, which I'll list later. However, these things will happen no matter what forum software we use, so don't be alarmed.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:18 pm  Post subject:   
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I think it's safe to say no one gives a shit about the shops so they could go.

Is there no arcade for phpbb 3?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:26 pm  Post subject:   
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I'm thinking the priorities are:

1. Scoreboard (Does this included the Master Runs?)
2. Knowledge Base
3. Arcade
4. Chatline

The Shops don't matter to me either I've never looked at them.

What is the custom title?

What about the skins?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:24 pm  Post subject:   
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I like vBulletin.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:39 pm  Post subject:   
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Okay flexxx...why do you like Vbulletin? :D

To answer my previous lead-in, it won't be possible to include everything when we transfer to the new software. That's because even with phpbb 3, the internals are so different that often it's best to recode the hacks from scratch.

I think the biggest loss will be the arcade scores. I don't know if there is an arcade hack for phpbb 3 yet, I know they have a hack that will let you play flash games, but whether it keeps track of scores is another issue. So most likely we're gonna lose the arcade scores whenever we upgrade.

The shops might transfer if we decide to use phpbb 3 and the author decides to write a similar hack for the next version, but I don't think that will happen. But there might be a shop hack unrelated to the current one so if you want we can reconstruct the shop stuff (which I appreciate vix even if not as many people use it.)

The Knowledge Base should be easy to recreate, as a KB is a very common request and should be filled. If not, well, we can always cut and paste or find a third party hack that will do largely the same thing (like a wiki) if we have to.

The Chat line will transfer no problem, as that is not related to phpbb.

The Scoreboard is my main priority - I will make sure that transfers with whatever board software we use. :yes

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:33 pm  Post subject:   
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I would just use phpBB3 (to bes ure of the continue of merq city) and then choose or change... :wink

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:15 am  Post subject:   
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Bennieboj wrote:
I would just use phpBB3 (to bes ure of the continue of merq city) and then choose or change... :wink


I wanted to say something like that.
But I agree with him :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:15 pm  Post subject:   
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Finally :cheers

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:23 pm  Post subject:   
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I'd go with PHPbb3, it's mostly the same visually, and we'd all feel at home, wheter it was installing and coding or just visiting and posting.

Zetaboards seems like a nice option, although I've yet to use it so I'll hold judgement on this one.

IPB/IF look outdated to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:49 pm  Post subject:   
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I say stick with what you know works. Unless phpBB3 is very different from v2, I don't see much reason to consider changing.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:25 pm  Post subject:   
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bakalhau wrote:
Zetaboards seems like a nice option, although I've yet to use it so I'll hold judgement on this one.

IPB/IF look outdated to me.


I definitely wouldn't say IF for here. I don't know anything about IPB though.

As for zeta, it's got a lot of cool features and supposedly more coming out at some point but it's got ads(unless you pay for ad removal which is something like 5 bucks per X amount of pageviews). I like how zeta lets you build a website around your forum for forums that start as a forums(not as sites like this, etc).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:06 pm  Post subject:   
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no ads please :eek


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:18 pm  Post subject:   
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Does this mean that... all our posts will be deleted?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:15 pm  Post subject:   
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Quote:
no ads please

No ads ever, so is our solemn promise from grandmort and I. :)

Don't worry Joni, our posts will be safe, or I won't change over. :no

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:13 am  Post subject:   
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well, I have to say I really don't have an opinion insomuch as which way the upgrade process should go, but I do want to make it known that I have absolutely zero problems with contributing money to pay for a licensing fee every year -- there are tons of things I pay money for, and this one would be one I'd be glad to pay. :yes

Im gonna take the easy way out, and say gondee, whatever you feel the best about, whichever you think would be the best for the site, thats what you should go with.

No matter which upgrade path is taken, I am here to support this site in any way I can. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:27 pm  Post subject:   
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Well as of right now the vote is favoring phpbb 3, which makes the most sense from a community standpoint as it's free and will most likely have the most compatibility with our previous software. So while it's not a final decision if for some reason there's a big push for something else, I'll base my future plans on upgrading to phpbb 3.

So for the immediate future I'm going to halt all upgrades to this board as it makes little sense to upgrade something that we're gonna chuck to the side in a few months.

Right now I'm getting quotes on a scoreboard for phpbb 3 - if I need help with covering the cost I may hit you up again LB if you're willing to help out (which I really appreciate.) But right now the quote is low enough to where I think I can finance it myself. If it changes I'll let you know. When we have the scoreboard mod up and functional and I have a few themes in the bag, I'll take this board offline and upgrade to the new board. That most likely won't be for at least 5 months as want to graduate from art school first and next term is my last term.

Let me know if you guys have any questions/suggestions/whatever. :cheers

I have a few questions on the community features you guys want with phpbb 3 -
  • Do you guys want attachments turned on?
  • Do you want another image resize mod like we have here? (I promise it won't "jump the page" the way this one does.
  • Do you guys want any kind of "personal page" like separate from your profile?
  • Any other features you guys want off the top of your head? Throw it out there and I'll tell you if it's available or part of standard phpBB3 installation. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:28 pm  Post subject:   
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I'm happy to help with costs for re-writing the scoreboard

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