I'm making some progress with grabs, but it's kinda hard to test since the points are based on how long you hold the grab but the trick callout doesn't indicate how long the grab lasted. I'll figure it out in due time, though.

Anyway, where to start...

It looks like grabs at each 'tier' (normal / tricky / super tricky) are split into 3 levels, based on difficulty. (Actually I've only collected data for 'tier 1' tricks so far, but I'm assuming it'll also be true for ubers.)

(I play Standard-buttons, but I'll use directions on the stick to avoid confusion between consoles. Apologies to those using Classic, but I haven't mapped the grabs on those controls yet.)

basic tricks: D / R / U / L on the stick
better tricks: RU / RD / LU / LD / UR / UL on the stick
best tricks: RL / LR on the stick

The 2-input tricks are better than the 1-input tricks. And the far-2-input tricks are better than the near-2-input tricks.

List of Grabs | Click to reveal hidden content

basic
L - Melon / Switch Indy --> Skyscraper / Switch Waaay Back
R - Indy / Switch Melon --> Waay Back / Switch Skyscraper

U - Rocket / Switch Rocket --> Checkin' the Nose / Switch Checkin' the Nose
D - Truckdriver / Switch Truckdriver --> Sledgehammer / Switch Sledgehammer

better
LU - Nosegrab / Switch Crail --> Sidewinder / Switch Submersible
RU - Crail / Switch Nosegrab --> Submersible / Switch Sidewinder

LD - Seatbelt / Switch Tail Grab --> Royal Flush / Switch Stay Frosty
RD - Tail Grab / Switch Seatbelt --> Stay Frosty / Switch Royal Flush

UL - Flying Squirrel / Switch Stiffy --> Huge In Europe / Switch Cradle May Fall
UR - Stiffy / Switch Flying Squirrel --> Cradle May Fall / Switch Huge In Europe

best
LR - Mute / Switch Stalefish --> All You Can Eat / Switch Blackbird
RL - Stalefish / Switch Mute --> Blackbird / Switch All You Can Eat

(I haven't bothered including the level one ubers. They're just called Uber Melon, Uber Indy, Switch Uber Stiffy, etc. So just look at the basic grab and add "Uber".)

Ok, so now for points. Well, I was completely wrong about HUGE! and MASSIVE! -- they're not bonus points. At least, not in the way I was thinking. They just indicate when you're bumped up to a higher points-per-frame for the grab.

I did a ton of Melons & Indys and recorded all of the different scores I saw. I then sorted the scores and tried to fill in the gaps in my score list.

lotsa numbers | Click to reveal hidden content

POINTS CALLOUT INCREMENT
33 33
67* 34
100* 33
133 33
167 34
200* 33
233 33
267 34
300 33
333 33
367 34
400 33
433 33
475 huge 42
517 huge 42
558 huge 41
600 huge 42
642 huge 42
683 huge 41
725 huge 42
767 huge 42
808 huge 41
850 huge 42
892* huge 42
933* huge 41
975 huge 42
1017* huge 42
1058* huge 41
1100* huge 42
1142* huge 42
1183* huge 41
1225* huge 42
1267 huge 42
1308* huge 41
1350 huge 42
1392* huge 42
1433* huge 41
1475 huge 42
1517 huge 42
1558 huge 41
1600 huge 42
1642 huge 42
1683* huge 41
1733 massive 50
1783 massive 50
1833* massive 50
1883* massive 50
1933* massive 50
1983 massive 50
2033 massive 50
2083* massive 50
2133 massive 50

*Predicted scores. All others are actual recorded scores.

Note there are 30 possible scores with a HUGE! callout. Also note that the game runs at 30fps. Also note that the MASSIVE! callout happens 1 second after the HUGE callout. I believe the "INCREMENT" (in the 'lotsa numbers' hidden section above) is the number of points awarded during the last frame of the grab.

A Melon earns 33.3 points per frame at first, then bumps up to 41.6 per frame ("HUGE!"), then up to 50 per frame ("MASSIVE!"). Points-per-frame may increase even more, but there's no callout after "MASSIVE". Further study is needed.

(Random side note -- there are 13 frames before "HUGE!", but this seems like a weird number to me. I'm thinking "HUGE!" actually happens after 15 frames, which would be exactly 1/2 second. The first 2 frames of the grab just don't earn any points, which also would explain why it's possible to do a 180 Indy and earn exactly the same number of points as a regular 180.)


I haven't worked out the details for the other grabs yet. Back to the game to see if I can make a bit more progress tonight -- I really want to finish as much of this as possible before Tuesday...

Nice job mahkra!
I'm definitely putting this new knowledge to use

_________________

Funkmammoth: https://soundcloud.com/funkmammoth

wow nice food for thought. way to go!

_________________

Ok, I have a scoring model mostly built out, for simple grabs at least. (No tweaks or ubers yet.) The first second of the grab is a bit wonky, possibly because the first frames of the animation don't earn points... not quite sure about that part just yet. But after the first second, my scoring model makes complete sense and fits every piece of data I've collected so far.

So the basic idea is just that a grab earns points every frame. And after each second (each second = 30 frames), the points-per-frame increases. (The HUGE! callout happens after 1 second & the MASSIVE! callout happens after 2. There are no callouts after MASSIVE! but the points do still get bumped up again after each second.)

Using the 3 levels (basic / better / best) from my last post, here's the points-per-frame for non-uber grabs:

basic | Click to reveal hidden content

100/3 (< 1 sec)*
125/3 = 41.6 (> 1 sec) - "HUGE!"
150/3 = 50 (> 2 sec) - "MASSIVE!"
175/3 = 58.3 (> 3 sec)
200/3 = 66.6 (> 4 sec)
225/3 = 75 (> 5 sec)
*The first second is a bit wonky, but this is the points-per-frame for the latter part of that second.

better | Click to reveal hidden content

120/3 = 40 (< 1 sec)*
150/3 = 50 (> 1 sec) - "HUGE!"
180/3 = 60 (> 2 sec) - "MASSIVE!"
210/3 = 70 (> 3 sec)
240/3 = 80 (> 4 sec)
270/3 = 90 (> 5 sec)
*The first second is a bit wonky, but this is the points-per-frame for the latter part of that second.

best | Click to reveal hidden content

140/3 = 46.6 (< 1 sec)*
175/3 = 58.3 (> 1 sec) - "HUGE!"
210/3 = 70 (> 2 sec) - "MASSIVE!"
245/3 = 81.6 (> 3 sec)
280/3 = 93.3 (> 4 sec)
315/3 = 105 (> 5 sec)
*The first second is a bit wonky, but this is the points-per-frame for the latter part of that second.

Better grabs are worth 20% more than Basic grabs.
Best grabs are worth 40% more than Basic grabs. (16.6% more than Better grabs.)

EDIT: To give these numbers a bit more meaning, here are the points earned during each full second of the three grab levels:

Ah, they should have thrown in MONSTER! at the 5 second mark just for nostalgic kicks.

_________________
Charmy comes in all different colors - UrbanDictionary.com

My longest test grab was actually just a few frames short of 5 full seconds... I haven't seen it on any vids though, and I'm assuming some of those master runs had much longer grabs than my simple testing involved.

How does a signature trick compare against other übers?

_________________
Last.FM
Space CQC Jammer Canceler Breaker Eraser Confiner Obstructor Buster Closer

In terms of Scoring Mechanics: How important is it to keep your combo going? It seems like the more important thing is your flow.

From what I can tell, if you land a trick worth 10K points, two things happen: the 10K is multiplied by your flow and added to your current score; and the 10K is added to your combo total. When you cash out your combo, your combo total is multiplied by your flow as well.

In past games, the amount added to your combo total depended on how far into your combo you were. So at the very start (first trick of combo), 50% of the trick's value was added to your combo total, and if your combo was 30 tricks or more, 200% of the trick's value was added to your combo total. This made it very important to get your combo up to 30+ very quickly, and keep it there, cashing it out usually at the very end of the run (unless you wanted to be a little more conservative and cash out earlier, in which case you still wanted to get it back up to 30+ ASAP).

Now, it seems there is really no reason to do a bunch of quick 180's / nose presses to get your combo count up (in fact, doing so will kill your flow so is a very bad idea; this is probably why my first scores were so low on the demo! :-p). Furthermore, it seems there is little incentive not to cash out your combo frequently; as long as your flow is 20x, why not cash in?

Or is there some part of scoring (e.g. a bonus for long combos that is significant) that I am unaware of?

Separately, why can't EA just release the full details of the scoring mechanics for reference, rather than requiring us to reverse-engineer it? Anybody ever asked them?

Thanks!

Only kind of important, if that makes sense. Flow determines the vast majority of your score - your combo count on the lower left only determined the combo bonus you get once you cash in the combo. The combo bonus ranges anywhere from a few thousand points to a million when you reach a 100 combo, but it is a one-time bonus only and not multiplied by the Flow multiplier. With that said, a million points is nothing to scoff at.


Correct, once your multiplier is 20x, it makes no real mathematical difference when you cash in your combo. However, a million point bonus for a 100x is nothing to scoff at in serious competiion. And to answer your question about what is the best tactic to get your multiplier up quicky, it is not quick 180's, but rather several small jumps with quick flips and grabs about a second apart while going down the regular course. The collective term for this is 'bunny hopping' at the moment. You can see it here:

_________________

I haven't done any controlled testing with ubers (it's hard to catch the scores in real time when you have a combo going, and I don't have a way to record test runs) but I've tried to do some analysis from runs that are up on youtube. I tried to group the ubers together by approximate length of grab & then compared points after subtracting out points from flips & spins. I can't say anything precise about how many points the tricks earn, because this is all sorta 'back of the envelope' approximations, but it looks like all tweaked ubers are better than the signature trick. (From testing of regular grabs, it looks like tweaking adds a TON of points, so I'm assuming the sig trick is better than all non-tweaked ubers. But none of the vids I analyzed did any non-tweaked ubers, except the sig trick which can't be tweaked.)

From the (admittedly quite limited) data I've collected so far, here's my best guess at the ranking of ubers, from best to worst:
1 - TWEAKED Blackbird / All You Can Eat
2 - TWEAKED Sidewinder / Royal Flush / Submersible / Stay Frosty / Huge In Europe / Cradle May Fall
3 - TWEAKED Skyscraper / Waaay Back / Checkin' the Nose / Sledgehammer
4 - (signature trick)
5 - Blackbird / All You Can Eat
6 - Sidewinder / Royal Flush / Submersible / Stay Frosty / Huge In Europe / Cradle May Fall
7 - Skyscraper / Waaay Back / Checkin' the Nose / Sledgehammer

Some other notes:
- Always do flips. They add a lot of points, especially when you get to 3+ per trick.
- Never do spins. In my testing, it did not seem possible to do spins without slowing the flip. (Or maybe I'm just bad.)
- Go for the biggest air possible. A 5-second grab is often worth more than 10x as much as a 1-second grab. Do ubers on flat ground between jumps, but always try to get to the next MASSIVE! air as fast as possible.
- Always do grabs*, and always tweak. In my testing, grabs (tweaked or regular) did not slow flips, so there's not even a tradeoff. Just do it.
(You may have to release a tweaked grab slightly sooner to land properly, but the bonus points from the tweak FAR outweigh losing a few frames of grab time at the end.)
- Tweak your grabs immediately, and hold tweak for the whole grab. It seems tweaking is not just a flat bonus to the trick, but rather each frame of the grab will earn more points tweaked than it will non-tweaked.

*You may not want to start a grab if you're going for "Off the Heli", which nets a cool 20k. (It's been mentioned in other threads on here that if you're doing an uber already, the heli will not interrupt. But I'm not sure if that's fact or just speculation.) You should still uber & flip after hitting the heli, though.


Is this confirmed? I remember Batty mentioning that number, but I thought he said that he didn't remember exactly and was just suggesting something it might be. The biggest bonus I've seen so far is 200k for a 70+ combo.


Because then I'd be just a random nubcake on the forum with nothing significant to contribute.

I have always liked doing twists it's kind of a shame that it's not worth near as much. sounds like everyone will be doing nothing but flip tricks to set high scores. Does tricky meter go up quicker with doing flips than it does with spins also? this would be good to know for racing

Just to help you in your theory work, i have had an 85 combo which netted me 225k. Hope this helps, keep up the good work.

Thanks! It's what I'd expected -- looks like once you hit 30 tricks it goes up 25k every 10 -- but it really is helpful, saves me a lot of time I would've spent grinding out huge combos just to check.

Haha, they kind of are already

_________________
"Smashing!"

-Nigel Thornberry

I think this is brilliant, really sets up how to make the most of your runs. Will be sure to try this out when i get home today. thumbs up for all the thought put into it.

someone should make a youtube video explaining all of this stuff. it'd be great to know and maybe a nice way to decide on some new tricking tactics.

_________________

OK guys, recap & update time. I've made some progress with ubers, though I didn't collect data for the sig trick yet. Also still need to sort out some data for rail tricks & tweaks before posting that stuff.
(* denotes Coming Soon)

Normal Grabs - Basic | Click to reveal hidden content

Tricks: Melon, Indy, Rocket, Truckdriver
1 sec - 433 points
2 sec - 1,683 points
3 sec - 3,183 points
4 sec - 4,933 points
5 sec - 6,933 points
6 sec - 9,183 points
7 sec - 11,683 points
8 sec - 14,433 points
9 sec - 17,433 points
10 sec - 20,683 points

Normal Grabs - Better | Click to reveal hidden content

Tricks: Nosegrab, Crail, Seatbelt, Tailgrab, Flying Squirrel, Stiffy
1 sec - 740 points
2 sec - 2,240 points
3 sec - 4,040 points
4 sec - 6,140 points
5 sec - 8,540 points
6 sec - 11,240 points
7 sec - 14,240 points
8 sec - 17,540 points
9 sec - 21,140 points
10 sec - 25,040 points

Normal Grabs - Best | Click to reveal hidden content

Tricks: Mute, Stalefish
1 sec - 863 points
2 sec - 2,613 points
3 sec - 4,713 points
4 sec - 7,163 points
5 sec - 9,963 points
6 sec - 13,113 points
7 sec - 16,613 points
8 sec - 20,463 points
9 sec - 24,663 points
10 sec - 29,213 points

*Simple Ubers - Basic | Click to reveal hidden content

Coming Soon!

*Simple Ubers - Better | Click to reveal hidden content

Coming Soon!

*Simple Ubers - Best | Click to reveal hidden content

Coming Soon!

Super Ubers - Basic | Click to reveal hidden content

Tricks: Skyscraper, Waaay Back, Checkin' the Nose, Sledgehammer
1 sec - 867 points
2 sec - 3,367 points
3 sec - 6,367 points
4 sec - 9,867 points
5 sec - 13,867 points
6 sec - 18,367 points
7 sec - 23,367 points
8 sec - 28,867 points
9 sec - 34,867 points
10 sec - 41,367 points

Super Ubers - Better | Click to reveal hidden content

Tricks: Sidewinder, Submersible, Royal Flush, Stay Frosty, Huge In Europe, Cradle May Fall
1 sec - 1,480 points
2 sec - 4,480 points
3 sec - 8,080 points
4 sec - 12,280 points
5 sec - 17,080 points
6 sec - 22,480 points
7 sec - 28,480 points
8 sec - 35,080 points
9 sec - 42,280 points
10 sec - 50,080 points

Super Ubers - Best | Click to reveal hidden content

Tricks: All You Can Eat, Blackbird
1 sec - 1,727 points
2 sec - 5,227 points
3 sec - 9,427 points
4 sec - 14,327 points
5 sec - 19,927 points
6 sec - 26,227 points
7 sec - 33,227 points
8 sec - 40,927 points
9 sec - 49,327 points
10 sec - 58,427 points

*Signature Tricks | Click to reveal hidden content

Coming Soon!

Flips | Click to reveal hidden content

score = 600*n(n+1)/2, where n = # of flips
1 flip - 600 points
2 flips - 1,800 points
3 flips - 3,600 points
4 flips - 6,000 points
5 flips - 9,000 points
6 flips - 12,600 points
7 flips - 16,800 points
8 flips - 21,600 points
9 flips - 27,000 points
10 flips - 33,000 points
11 flips - 39,600 points
12 flips - 46,800 points
13 flips - 54,600 points
14 flips - 63,000 points
15 flips - 72,000 points

Spins | Click to reveal hidden content

score = 120*n + 30*n(n+1)/2, where n = # of 180s
1 180 (180) - 150 points
2 180s (360) - 330 points
3 180s (540) - 540 points
4 180s (720) - 780 points
5 180s (900) - 1,050 points
6 180s (1080) - 1,350 points
7 180s (1260) - 1,680 points
8 180s (1440) - 2,040 points
9 180s (1620) - 2,430 points
10 180s (1800) - 2,850 points
11 180s (1980) - 3,300 points
12 180s (2160) - 3,780 points
13 180s (2340) - 4,290 points
14 180s (2520) - 4,830 points
15 180s (2700) - 5,400 points
16 180s (2880) - 6,000 points
17 180s (3060) - 6,630 points
18 180s (3240) - 7,290 points
19 180s (3420) - 7,980 points
20 180s (3600) - 8,700 points
21 180s (3780) - 9,450 points
22 180s (3960) - 10,230 points
23 180s (4140) - 11,040 points
24 180s (4320) - 11,880 points
25 180s (4500) - 12,750 points
26 180s (4680) - 13,650 points
27 180s (4860) - 14,580 points
28 180s (5040) - 15,540 points
29 180s (5220) - 16,530 points
30 180s (5400) - 17,550 points

*Rail Tricks | Click to reveal hidden content

Coming Soon!

Other Tricks | Click to reveal hidden content

Pieces of Flare - 1,000 points
Off the Heli - 20,000 points
Nose/Tail Press - 5 points per meter (no "long grab" for presses -- tested past 700 meters)

Combo Bonuses | Click to reveal hidden content

2+ tricks - 2,000 points
5+ tricks - 10,000 points
7+ tricks - 15,000 points
10+ tricks - 25,000 points
20+ tricks - 50,000 points
25+ tricks - 75,000 points
30+ tricks - 100,000 points
40+ tricks - 125,000 points
50+ tricks - 150,000 points
60+ tricks - 175,000 points
70+ tricks - 200,000 points
80+ tricks - 225,000 points
104 tricks - 300,000 points
(Not sure where the breaks are between mid-80s and 104 yet, or what's past 104.)

*Tweak Bonus | Click to reveal hidden content

Coming Soon!

TLDR:
- Tweak all tricks.
- Do flips, not spins.
- Best grabs are Mute Tweak & Stalefish Tweak.
- Best ubers are All You Can Eat Tweak & Blackbird Tweak.
- Hold tricks as long as possible. One 5-sec trick is worth more than ten 1-sec tricks.
- Combo bonus is nice, but is not required for a top run (at leat not yet). It's OK to cash in combo with 20x flow, but make sure you have time to get back to Super Tricky before any big jumps. Ubers are worth 2x as many points as regular grabs; a huge jump at 20x with a regular grab instead of an uber could cost you 1.5 million points.
- Use Pieces of Flare to keep combos alive.
- Off the Heli at 20x Flow for 800,000 points.

EDIT: Adding the trick list from my earlier post.
(I'm using directions on the stick to avoid confusion between consoles; it's trivial to convert stick directions to button presses. Apologies to those using Classic, but I haven't mapped the grabs on those controls yet.)

basic tricks: D / R / U / L on the stick
better tricks: RU / RD / LU / LD / UR / UL on the stick
best tricks: RL / LR on the stick

List of Grabs | Click to reveal hidden content

basic
L - Melon / Switch Indy --> Skyscraper / Switch Waaay Back
R - Indy / Switch Melon --> Waay Back / Switch Skyscraper

U - Rocket / Switch Rocket --> Checkin' the Nose / Switch Checkin' the Nose
D - Truckdriver / Switch Truckdriver --> Sledgehammer / Switch Sledgehammer

better
LU - Nosegrab / Switch Crail --> Sidewinder / Switch Submersible
RU - Crail / Switch Nosegrab --> Submersible / Switch Sidewinder

LD - Seatbelt / Switch Tail Grab --> Royal Flush / Switch Stay Frosty
RD - Tail Grab / Switch Seatbelt --> Stay Frosty / Switch Royal Flush

UL - Flying Squirrel / Switch Stiffy --> Huge In Europe / Switch Cradle May Fall
UR - Stiffy / Switch Flying Squirrel --> Cradle May Fall / Switch Huge In Europe

best
LR - Mute / Switch Stalefish --> All You Can Eat / Switch Blackbird
RL - Stalefish / Switch Mute --> Blackbird / Switch All You Can Eat

The simple ubers are just called "Uber Melon", "Switch Uber Stiffy", etc. Just look at the normal grab and add "Uber".

Oh wow, I thought Stay Frosty/Royal Flush were the best scoring... I've been training myself to do those all day

_________________
Charmy comes in all different colors - UrbanDictionary.com

Should I make a post like my 'recap' just above in the Mega Info sticky, and edit that post whenever more details are added to the scoring model? Or would that be over-stepping -- is that thread just for mods to post in?

I'm thinking I could keep this thread active for working out the details and getting feedback, but actually have the final product in the sticky where people can find it.

This is awesome. Could you include controls for the Basic / Better Best Ubers? I think I saw it somewhere, but can't find it. Is it:
Basic = hold a single direction on the Right Stick (and tweak)
Better = push the Right Stick in one direction and roll 90 degrees to another direction (and tweak)
Best = push the Right stick left, then quickly right, or vice versa (and tweak)
?

Thanks!

Yep, that's it. Note that starting with Down on the right stick followed by any other direction will always be a basic trick (Truckdriver/Sledgehammer) regardless it does not modify where you grab the board unlike when you start with Up (2 hands grab the board), Left (grabs with left hand) and Right (grabs with right hand).

Is the combo the thing in the bottom left of the screen or is that the flow counter or whatever I'm not sure which is which?

It's in my post right at the top of this very page! I'll also add it to the 'recap' post.

The bottom left will show a list of recent tricks, with the combo counter and combo score right above that. The Flow multiplier is in the bottom center of the screen.

I was also wondering if any progress has been made on determining what exactly it takes to increase your flow meter. I saw something about doing multiple suber-ubers in a single jump potentially increasing in twice; was this confirmed? Any other tips on getting in up to 20X as quickly as possible? Thanks!

I fell asleep when I was putting my daughter to bed last night, so I never made it to my xbox to do any more testing or to my PC to update this thread. So just a quick update from work this morning, though I don't have all the data with me so it'll be a bit general.

Signature Trick
The signature trick seems to be exactly twice as many points as a 'better' Super Uber:
1 sec - 2,960 points
2 sec - 8,960 points
3 sec - 16,160 points
etc...

However, the Sig Trick works a bit differently because it has a longer animation. Other grabs end as soon as you let go of the grab button, though you do need to let go a few frames before you land. But the Sig Trick continues after you let go of the grab button - it keeps going (and you keep accruing points) until it reaches a 'natural' break in the animation. The only way to have the trick end before the animation finishes is to actually land the trick. If you let go of the grab button early enough, then you'll make a good landing even if the animation hasn't finished. So you'll actually be earning points from the trick right up until the frame before you hit the ground, and you'll still make a good landing.

I don't have the game yet (hopefully it will arrive in the mail today) so I've only tested Zoe's Sig Trick. I'm expecting all of the characters will use the same scoring model, but other characters may have different 'natural' breaks in their animations. I'll test that theory once I can access more characters in the full game.