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Scoring Mechanics http://www.merqurycity.com/ssx_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9829 |
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Author: | mahkra [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Scoring Mechanics |
*Scoring Model last updated March 24th, Video added (courtesy of yako591) April 2nd* Intro / Overview When you land a trick, you immediately bank TRICK x FLOW. TRICK (no multiplier) is also added to the COMBO SCORE. The combo counter increases by one, and if the trick is big enough Flow also increases by one. (Things like Nose/Tail press won't increase flow.) When you end your combo (banking it, not crashing), you bank COMBO SCORE x FLOW. You also bank a COMBO BONUS (no multiplier), which just depends on the number of tricks in the combo. If you stop doing tricks or stay in one area for two long, you'll start to lose FLOW. So keep moving down the mountain & keep doing tricks to keep your FLOW multiplier up. TRICK scores for most tricks are detailed below. Normal Grabs - Basic (Tricks: Melon, Indy, Rocket, Truckdriver) 1 sec - 433 points 2 sec - 1,683 points 3 sec - 3,183 points 4 sec - 4,933 points 5 sec - 6,933 points 6 sec - 9,183 points 7 sec - 11,683 points 8 sec - 14,433 points 9 sec - 17,433 points 10 sec - 20,683 points Normal Grabs - Better (Tricks: Nosegrab, Crail, Seatbelt, Tailgrab, Flying Squirrel, Stiffy) 1 sec - 740 points 2 sec - 2,240 points 3 sec - 4,040 points 4 sec - 6,140 points 5 sec - 8,540 points 6 sec - 11,240 points 7 sec - 14,240 points 8 sec - 17,540 points 9 sec - 21,140 points 10 sec - 25,040 points Normal Grabs - Best (Tricks: Mute, Stalefish) 1 sec - 863 points 2 sec - 2,613 points 3 sec - 4,713 points 4 sec - 7,163 points 5 sec - 9,963 points 6 sec - 13,113 points 7 sec - 16,613 points 8 sec - 20,463 points 9 sec - 24,663 points 10 sec - 29,213 points Simple Ubers - Basic (Tricks: Uber Melon, Uber Indy, Uber Rocket, Uber Truckdriver) 1 sec - 650 points 2 sec - 2,525 points 3 sec - 4,775 points 4 sec - 7,400 points 5 sec - 10,400 points 6 sec - 13,775 points 7 sec - 17,525 points 8 sec - 21,650 points 9 sec - 26,150 points 10 sec - 31,025 points Simple Ubers - Better (Tricks: Uber Nosegrab, Uber Crail, Uber Seatbelt, Uber Tailgrab, Uber Flying Squirrel, Uber Stiffy) 1 sec - 1,110 points 2 sec - 3,360 points 3 sec - 6,060 points 4 sec - 9,210 points 5 sec - 12,810 points 6 sec - 16,860 points 7 sec - 21,360 points 8 sec - 26,310 points 9 sec - 31,710 points 10 sec - 37,560 points Simple Ubers - Best (Tricks: Uber Mute, Uber Stalefish) 1 sec - 1,295 points 2 sec - 3,920 points 3 sec - 7,070 points 4 sec - 10,745 points 5 sec - 14,945 points 6 sec - 19,670 points 7 sec - 24,920 points 8 sec - 30,695 points 9 sec - 36,995 points 10 sec - 43,820 points Super Ubers - Basic (Tricks: Skyscraper, Waaay Back, Checkin' the Nose, Sledgehammer) 1 sec - 867 points 2 sec - 3,367 points 3 sec - 6,367 points 4 sec - 9,867 points 5 sec - 13,867 points 6 sec - 18,367 points 7 sec - 23,367 points 8 sec - 28,867 points 9 sec - 34,867 points 10 sec - 41,367 points Super Ubers - Better (Tricks: Sidewinder, Submersible, Royal Flush, Stay Frosty, Huge In Europe, Cradle May Fall) 1 sec - 1,480 points 2 sec - 4,480 points 3 sec - 8,080 points 4 sec - 12,280 points 5 sec - 17,080 points 6 sec - 22,480 points 7 sec - 28,480 points 8 sec - 35,080 points 9 sec - 42,280 points 10 sec - 50,080 points Super Ubers - Best (Tricks: All You Can Eat, Blackbird) 1 sec - 1,727 points 2 sec - 5,227 points 3 sec - 9,427 points 4 sec - 14,327 points 5 sec - 19,927 points 6 sec - 26,227 points 7 sec - 33,227 points 8 sec - 40,927 points 9 sec - 49,327 points 10 sec - 58,427 points Signature Trick 1 sec - 2,960 points 2 sec - 8,960 points 3 sec - 16,160 points 4 sec - 24,560 points 5 sec - 34,160 points 6 sec - 44,960 points 7 sec - 56,960 points 8 sec - 70,160 points 9 sec - 84,560 points 10 sec - 100,160 points * The signature trick animation only ends in a few different places unless it's forced to end early by landing, so these exact scores may never be seen. Flips (score = 600*n(n+1)/2, where n = # of flips) 1 flip - 600 points 2 flips - 1,800 points 3 flips - 3,600 points 4 flips - 6,000 points 5 flips - 9,000 points 6 flips - 12,600 points 7 flips - 16,800 points 8 flips - 21,600 points 9 flips - 27,000 points 10 flips - 33,000 points 11 flips - 39,600 points 12 flips - 46,800 points 13 flips - 54,600 points 14 flips - 63,000 points 15 flips - 72,000 points Spins (score = 120*n + 30*n(n+1)/2, where n = # of 180s) 1 180 (180) - 150 points 2 180s (360) - 330 points 3 180s (540) - 540 points 4 180s (720) - 780 points 5 180s (900) - 1,050 points 6 180s (1080) - 1,350 points 7 180s (1260) - 1,680 points 8 180s (1440) - 2,040 points 9 180s (1620) - 2,430 points 10 180s (1800) - 2,850 points 11 180s (1980) - 3,300 points 12 180s (2160) - 3,780 points 13 180s (2340) - 4,290 points 14 180s (2520) - 4,830 points 15 180s (2700) - 5,400 points 16 180s (2880) - 6,000 points 17 180s (3060) - 6,630 points 18 180s (3240) - 7,290 points 19 180s (3420) - 7,980 points 20 180s (3600) - 8,700 points 21 180s (3780) - 9,450 points 22 180s (3960) - 10,230 points 23 180s (4140) - 11,040 points 24 180s (4320) - 11,880 points 25 180s (4500) - 12,750 points 26 180s (4680) - 13,650 points 27 180s (4860) - 14,580 points 28 180s (5040) - 15,540 points 29 180s (5220) - 16,530 points 30 180s (5400) - 17,550 points Rails Note: According to Todd Batty, rails are scored per-second, not per-meter. But I haven't yet worked out a formula. It's pretty hard to actually go slowly on rails, though, so the approximations listed here should generally be fairly close. I looked at rails a bit tonight (March 25) but the numbers I collected were a mess... I think I'm going to try to pin down some exact numbers for the Tweak Bonus and Duplicate Penalty before coming back to rails. Grind (normal) - 30 points per meter Grind (tricky) - ? Grind (super tricky) - ? Boardslide (normal) - 25 points per meter Boardslide (tricky) - 40 points per meter Boardslide (super tricky) - 50 points per meter Rail Tricks - about 30-35 points per meter Rail Simple Ubers - about 45 points per meter Rail Super Ubers - about 55-70 points per meter All 6 tricks at each level appear to earn the same number of points. Points per meter likely varies depending on the length of the trick, just like points per second varies with the length of a grab, but I haven't worked out a specific model to predict. In general, a rail trick seems to be about 40% better than a boardslide at all levels - normal / tricky / super tricky. (Note there are actually three different versions of Boardslide, but they all share the same name. Also note a Grind is just a Boardslide, but it's performed on manual-grind terrain instead of an auto-grind rail.) (I'm actually starting to think rail tricks might be points per frame, not points per meter... but I was trying to finalize the scoring model for grabs before devoting more time to rails.) Other Tricks Pieces of Flare - 1,000 points Off the Heli - 20,000 points Nose/Tail Press - 5 points per meter Combo Bonus 2+ tricks - 2,000 points 5+ tricks - 10,000 points 7+ tricks - 15,000 points 10+ tricks - 25,000 points 20+ tricks - 50,000 points 25+ tricks - 75,000 points 30+ tricks - 100,000 points 40+ tricks - 125,000 points 50+ tricks - 150,000 points 60+ tricks - 175,000 points 70+ tricks - 200,000 points 80+ tricks - 225,000 points 104 (?) tricks - 300,000 points 214 (?) tricks - 500,000 points (Not sure yet where all of the break points are past 80. Also need to double-check some of those larger combos.) Tweak Bonus *Coming Soon! (Looks like tweaking roughly triples the score, but I haven't worked out anything exact.) Duplicate Penalty *Coming Soon! (I think this might just be a 50% penalty from some scores I've noticed while testing other things, but I haven't specifically tested it yet.) TLDR Tips: - Get to x20 Flow ASAP & stay at x20 for the whole track. - Tweak all tricks. - Do flips, not spins. Pro-tip from Todd Batty: "backflips are better than front flips. They have a different take-off animation that sends your player more 'up' then 'forward' which means sometimes getting an extra flip and a bit more air that will add up over the course of the run. And for racers, the opposite obviously holds true." - Best grabs are Mute Tweak & Stalefish Tweak. - Best ubers are All You Can Eat Tweak & Blackbird Tweak. - Hold tricks as long as possible. One 5-sec trick is worth more than ten 1-sec tricks. - Combo bonus is nice, but is not required for a top run (at leat not yet). It's OK to cash in combo with 20x flow, but make sure you have time to get back to Super Tricky before any big jumps. Ubers are worth 2x as many points as regular grabs; a huge jump at 20x with a regular grab instead of an uber could cost you 1.5 million points. - Use Pieces of Flare to keep combos alive. - Off the Heli at 20x Flow for 800,000 points. - yako591 made a video with some tips for high scores & posted it in another thread. Watch the video to see some of these tips in action and to get a feel for how to plot a course down the track. yako591 wrote:
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Author: | Razorfever [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Great start mahkra. That'll be very useful! |
Author: | mahkra [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
I went through Yako591's 30-mil run and calculated the points from almost every individual trick. (Can't see the points after trick #6, so I can't determine the scores from trick #6 or #7.) It'll take some time to work out how grabs + spins add up to make the total points per trick, but I did find a few simple things already: "Off the Heli" is worth 20k. Before the multiplier. If you're at x20 when you do it, you can bank 400k immediately and another 400k later when you cash out your combo. AND you can still trick on the way down, so the heli points are really just gravy on top of what you'd normally get from a huge jump. Nose/Tail presses will net you just a couple hundred points each, but if you do 5-10 of them they could bump you up to the next level of COMBO BONUS at the end. It might be better to do 2 or 3 between jumps instead of holding 1 longer one. Yako's rail tricks averaged about 2,500 points. Air ubers (not counting HUGE or MASSIVE) averaged a bit over 5k each. HUGE! air ubers were about 11k each. MASSIVE! air ubers were about 29k each. (These are all base scores -- multiply each x40 to find the total points you'd get if you do the tricks at x20 and cash in your combo at x20.) I haven't yet separated the HUGE / MASSIVE bonus points from the base trick points. More to follow, though probably not til tonight or tomorrow. Gotta get at least some work done today... EDIT: One other thing I almost forgot -- it appears all grabs give you some number of points-per-second. And I'm guessing it's not a linear thing -- maybe it's 1k points for a 1-sec grab, 4k for a 2-sec, 10k for 3-sec, etc. Yako had a couple 'ubers' that he held for just a fraction of a second on jumps from the ground up to a rail & they were each worth only a couple hundred points. |
Author: | mahkra [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Okay, starting simple. Flips and spins. Flips:
Front/Back Flips are the same. Points seem to follow this formula: flip points = 600*(n+1)*n/2, where n is the # of flips
Here's another way to think about the formula: 1st flip is worth 600. 2nd flip is 1200. 3rd flip is 1800. 4th flip is 2400. A double is 600 + 1200 = 1800 points. A quad is 600 + 1200 + 1800 + 2400 = 6000 points. Spins:
FS/BS Spins are the same. Points seem to follow this formula: spin points = 120*n + (30*(n+1)*n/2), where n is the # of 180s
Here's another way to think about the formula: 1st 180 is worth 150. 2nd 180 is 180. 3rd 180 is 210. 4th 180 is 240. A 360 is 150 + 180 = 330 points. A 720 is 150 + 180 + 210 + 240 = 780 points. Flip + Spin: If you do both, just add the points for each part of the trick. There's no bonus. Disclaimer: I've only tested the formulas up to 2880 spins and x6 flips, so they may not hold true at higher numbers. |
Author: | bakalhau [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
So it's always better to just do flips with no spins. That's what I've been doing since yesterday. |
Author: | Midian [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Is it possible to hold the stick straight forward, then slightly diagonal and keep the full speed of the flip while also getting a few spins? Pure flips are obviously better than 50% flips and 50% spins, but if there's any leeway where you can get both while keeping maximum flip speed that'll add a few free points to the score. |
Author: | eviltim [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
So is it for sure that spinning slows down flipping and flipping slows down spinning? If that is the case, the key to figure out then is how spinning slows down your flipping (linearly, another model?) and vice versa. If we know that it could be possible to use those formulas for flipping and spinning to find an ideal scoring percentage for flipping and spinning rates, although it could just be 100% flipping, but maybe it would end up being something weird like 80% flipping and 20% spins or something. Also for more direct equations where s(n) is spin score with n being number of 180s, f(n) is flip score with n being number of flips. Code: s(n) = 15n^2 + 135n f(n) = 300n^2 + 300n Nice work mahkra, awesome scoring groundwork so far!!! |
Author: | gondee [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
This is fantastic stuff, I'm using this for the FAQ if you don't mind Mahkra. |
Author: | Midian [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
eviltim basically repeated what I said but so much more eloquently |
Author: | mahkra [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
gondee wrote: This is fantastic stuff, I'm using this for the FAQ if you don't mind Makra. I'll make you a deal -- if you spell my name correctly when you mention me as a contributor, you can use this stuff wherever you want. j/k I don't care about being credited & I'm happy to contribute. But you did spell my name wrong. |
Author: | gondee [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
No problem, in fact I'll fix it in the original post, too. |
Author: | logan43000 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
hey guys I think I figured out the rewind penalty. Basically when you rewind, you see it counting up a negative amount of points. From what I've seen, it then adds that negative amount of points to your combo score. So say you do a rewind that docks you 10,000 points, that will actually be 200,000 points off your combo bonus if you cash it in with a 20x flow multiplier. be especially careful if you're doing a rewind with a small or no combo score. ALSO, if you bail, your combo is gone, it is not coming back. That means that if you rewind after bailing, instead of your combo coming back, it will be replaced by the negative rewind score, which as I said above, can be cashed in like normal points for a large amount of negative points. can anyone verify this for me? I think this is right. |
Author: | mahkra [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
eviltim wrote: Also for more direct equations where s(n) is spin score with n being number of 180s, f(n) is flip score with n being number of flips. Code: s(n) = 15n^2 + 135n f(n) = 300n^2 + 300n Yeah, I left the equations in the other form because (n)*(n+1)/2 is the general formula for summing all the integers from 1 to n. The simplified forms could definitely be quicker to use, though, and will probably make more sense to some people. |
Author: | logan43000 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
oh, one more thing. If you complete a full super über (not necessarily tweaked) in mid air, and then do another complete one, it will count as plus 2x on your flow multiplier. It just ticks up one as soon as you finish the mid air über, so you won't see it if you only watch the flow meter tick up when you land. Again, I'm pretty sure this is right, but please check to verify so that I'm sure it's accurate. If I find anything wrong I'll let you all know! ^_^ |
Author: | mahkra [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
I've definitely seen multiple mid-air tricks where the flow multiplier only increased upon landing. The combo counter went up 2, but flow only went up 1. The cases I'm thinking of were not 2 big tricks, though. And I've been noticing other air tricks that did not cause flow to increase. I think actually there might be a score threshold for flow. If your trick scores over X points, then flow increases. If your trick scores below that number, then your combo counter goes up but flow does not. I'll try to test this theory & see if I can find a value of X that matches the in-game results. |
Author: | eviltim [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
I'm pretty sure it might be a time limit for whether it counts towards flow or not, kind of like Batty said about each rail trick adding to your flow multiplier if it lasted about one second. In big jumps I was able to get two ubers, or even just two grabs to give me two flow multipliers if I held them each at least a second or so in the air. Edit: Or it might be a time/score combo, as you definitely need to hold duplicates longer for it to count. |
Author: | Grubster11 [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Hi long time lurker here, just registered to say thanks for this amazing thread. It explains quite a lot. I'm really curious how rewind effects each meter and scoring, because I haven't been able to figure that out yet Oh and anyone can add me on PS3 I'm playing the demo constantly and will be playing SSX from day one. PSN ID is Grubster11 |
Author: | eyesh21 [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
mahkra wrote: I've definitely seen multiple mid-air tricks where the flow multiplier only increased upon landing. The combo counter went up 2, but flow only went up 1. The cases I'm thinking of were not 2 big tricks, though. And I've been noticing other air tricks that did not cause flow to increase. I think actually there might be a score threshold for flow. If your trick scores over X points, then flow increases. If your trick scores below that number, then your combo counter goes up but flow does not. I'll try to test this theory & see if I can find a value of X that matches the in-game results. i figured it out already. the combo multiplier goes up when a trick is held till the words HUGE appear. emphasis on the words HUGE. so if ur in midair and u do a super uber till the words HUGE appear then do another super uber until the words HUGE appear and then land u would get 2x on the combo multiplier. but word of caution. the words must appear long enough that u could actually read the letters clearly. if u see the words beginning to appear and switch tricks at that moment b4 HUGE finishes appearing then the combo multiplier will not increase. hope this helps. btw Mahkra u have way to much time on ur hands but good job nonetheless |
Author: | Kav [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:16 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Nice to see you posting mahkra, solid info |
Author: | Bildi [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Flippin' heck, nice work mahkra. |
Author: | Ersk [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:59 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
mahkra wrote: Flip + Spin: If you do both, just add the points for each part of the trick. There's no bonus. bakalhau wrote: So it's always better to just do flips with no spins. That's what I've been doing since yesterday. I'm slightly confused. Can someone confirm if it's either better to do just flips or flips+spins. Thanks. |
Author: | WillPG1212 [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
Ersk wrote: mahkra wrote: Flip + Spin: If you do both, just add the points for each part of the trick. There's no bonus. bakalhau wrote: So it's always better to just do flips with no spins. That's what I've been doing since yesterday. I'm slightly confused. Can someone confirm if it's either better to do just flips or flips+spins. Thanks. problem is when you do BOTH you flip less, because spinning slows down your flips. so youl get both the points but in the end itl be less than if you just flipped only during the same amount of air time. say you do a double back flip 720 according to this thrd youd get 1800 + 780 points = 2580 but if you don't do any spin at all. youd flip faster and have chance at landing a triple or quad backflip. which would instead give you, 3600 or 6000 points respectively. |
Author: | Ersk [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
WillPG1212 wrote: problem is when you do BOTH you flip less, because spinning slows down your flips. so youl get both the points but in the end itl be less than if you just flipped only during the same amount of air time. say you do a double back flip 720 according to this thrd youd get 1800 + 780 points = 2580 but if you don't do any spin at all. youd flip faster and have chance at landing a triple or quad backflip. which would instead give you, 3600 or 6000 points respectively. Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the help. I'll give it a test when I'm playing next. |
Author: | mahkra [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
eyesh21 wrote: btw Mahkra u have way to much time on ur hands but good job nonetheless Haha full time job & kids at home... on the subway ride this morning, I was reviewing my notes of what I want to look into next & thinking "If I were still in college I'd have finished all of this already... wish I had more time to figure this stuff out properly." Pretty swamped at work today so probably won't be able to post much, but here's a quick update of where I'm at: - Spins: figured out & posted - Flips: figured out & posted - Nose/Tail Press: looks like 5 points per meter, but I'm not sure if there are 'long grab' bonuses or anything like that. - Rail Tricks: I've got some preliminary numbers for this, but need to do a bit more testing before posting it. Also not quite sure if it's points per meter or points per second. Points per meter seems more likely, but I'm not 100% on that yet. - Grabs: Hoping to spend some time testing this tonight. - HUGE/MASSIVE: 5k / 10k ? Not sure about that yet... I think I'll get a solid answer on this from my Grabs testing though. Also hoping to get a better understanding of Flow, Rewinds, and Duplicates. I think we have a general idea how they work, but I'd really like to be able to describe it all more specifically. I didn't get much data on any of this from watching the 'master runs' type videos yesterday, for some reason.... I need to check out some random youtube garbage to find people doing rewinds / duplicates and actually recording & posting it online. |
Author: | MaciswalkingtheDog [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Scoring Mechanics |
I hope this does not turn into trick runs being flip-festivals |
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